Just leave HS and do your think in low/null/WHs, no one will follow you. The counter to wardecs is to not give targets. If they get bored, they will leave you alone.

90% of wardeccers/gankers will never leave HS. On another account? Maybe, but definitely not with their wardec character

This thread is about wardecs, not super pilots. Stay on topic. My point is you can avoid wardecs by PvE-ing in LS/null/WHs, I've done it for years. HS wardeccers will almost never follow.

That's not a dig against them, they have no interest in anything but HS. Avoid their playstyle and you an avoid the wardec.

100% of Titan pilots will never roam solo in FW plexes. On another account? Maybe, but definitely not with their Titan character



And your point is....what exactly???

I think if you want to shoot at someone then you should declare war then kill each other until peace reason for the wardecs .

i would say with the bountys should only be given if you have shoot at someone who has not got a wardec then ccp would award a small bounty and player can top it up that's the only way a bounty can be given and then the pirate/bounty hunter can collect full amount . of course the bounty hunter would have to pay a fee to cpp for that pleasure .

If this is a PVP game you are voting to erase minning, building and inventing? Ever read a monthy economic Report of Doom or CS? EVE is MORE then a PVP game! there are more playstyles then just PvP.

do you want to be forced to mine? I can't be paid enough to mine and waste my free time but it's fun for some guys. Good for me that I can do as I like and they can do as they like. They get my ISK and I get my ships: win-win Situation.
Mining is an integral part of Eve so do you want to be forced to do this integral part? Don't think so! You are always flying a combat ship, these guys don't.
You are complaining that it is hard to find the decced so why do you think it's easier for the decced? If you Need to defend something in space both side know where to go = Content = fun. Forcing other to abondan what is fun for them isn't content. Mybe for you but not for them. You don't want to mine, they don't want to fight is it so difficult to accept that some guys have other oppinion of fun then you?

BTW: Concord is protecting you or do most fights in Null/low end within 15 seconds?

Almost liked your post ... and then you finished with "edit: But yes, 0.0 pilots do seem to be much more prone to the hypocritical "Come to 0.0 then!" taunts, ridiculous though they are"

What's so ridiculous about that? The point made by such groups -mine included- is that your highsec tricks won't work out here because it won't just be that few that chose to be vulnerable that will be vulnerable. We'll get your booster, your logi and your scout as well, and you won't get away with traditional station games because there are considerably more tools in the sandbox (bubbles, microjumpfields, capital ships, bombs).

So ... what's ridiculous about these claims? If you declare war on our alliance and then don't have the guts to venture to our territory, we'll make fun of you. That's what you get for declaring war without doing a proper background check. You didn't honestly expect Us to come to You just because you paid concord or am I missing something here?

First of all Jenn a'Side has me blocked, which is great for me.

LMAO!! I'm sorry the attitudes of some seen in this thread are ridiculous.

LOL...You want structures that feed you intel?, and you want an intel tab which you can access and get live data about your war targets? in other words you want watchlist version 2.0? otherwise you'll protest by sitting in stations all day and not doing anything?

You guys should hurry up and leave the game and take Dracvlad with you. You still have a perfectly functioning system to generate PVP content and the truth is you're all just to darn lazy to go scout out your target. I hope CCP completely ignore your requests. Nothing they do will ever make you guys happy.

The watchlist was not always a part of Eve it was a change which came quite late, 9 years I think, what do you think people were doing before that? We gathered intel as best we could, a dude got in a cov ops went to where our enemies were and reported the findings. Also we weren't afraid to fight anyone back in those days.

There are faults in what you class as playing the game, some of you seem to want war targets served up with all the trimmings, and you're just angry because its not as easy as you want it to be. This game is too gangsta for you, the current generation of Eve player is a lazy one.

LOL, now youre trying to claim it was sarcasm? LOL ... I'm shitting you..

I think this is how some of you hi sec merc types are, sorry you've been stereotyped...HAHA.

With Drac I'm just tired of him thinking he is right on everything, he is 100% and should just leave the game because it is not to his liking.

well this took me by surprise it was intended to discuss the war dec mechanic in the whole but it looks like we are focusing on watchlist.

Can we do better? I want to talk about what a war dec mechanic would really look like and not just the detail about blanket deccing, neut logi, and watchlist.

As it stands I do not see a clear position for war decs and that's not saying they shouldn't be in the game. I'd just like to see a bit more structure to it so it's actually something both sides enjoy and one which doesn't stop people from signing into the game for a week.

When you realise this is a game you'll see why war decs need to be changed and can be enjoyable. Before you start with Eve is not that sort of game, once you untangle all of the crap people have bolted on to why Eve is so great at the heart of it, it's a game.

Lol dude null sec is much safer place then high sec. Mine in some high sec system in belt with 5 people with you. You dont know if they are scouts, if gankers are coming, you are always on your toes, not knowing who enemy is and where does it hide, every neutral in HS is enemy and there are 10-20 neutrals in each system, but in null most of systems your alliance holds have 0 neuts in it. Dont fool yourself null is safest place to live in, safer then high.

I think someone here is selling the effort INFAMOUS puts in its territory control short.

I'll testify you guys are always up for a fight (which you could also do in highsec if you so desired by the way). Now take away that response fleet like highsec dwellers do and then let's talk safety again, shall we?

Nice post: I hope you are mining the ore for your ships yourself? What would you fly without the the work of these "typical idiot high-sec miners"? Ganking with the weapons on your pod might proof a little difficult.
These guys are doing a job you and I couldn't be arsed to do and on top you insult them and think it's al right to just gank or rob them like rats. It the same idiocy that make people look down on janitors. Do you want to do all the cleaning yourself? Don't think so!

Do you want to sit in a defenseless ship for hours in a belt where everyone who can use the Overview can find you by just hopping the belts? Do you want to mine the 1.636B ISK mined ore in the forge (May) in Null? Without these "typical idiot high-sec miner" you would spend 70% of your gametime to mine the ore for the ships you will loose in the next fleet fight! Think about it!

So in the end you want to break the game, because these miners are the base for the EVE economy. If you chase them away you can skip all the mining, building inventing and make EVE a happy PVP slugfest which will most likely shut down within 6 month. And if someone wants to make wardeccs fairer = more actual fighting and not just ganking you insult him to be a carebear.
I want wardeccs to be more war=fights.
It isn't fun to get a fleet together to chase someone who just docks up and carrys on. It is not fun to be decced indefenitly. It's okay for a week but not for weeks. I would limit corp switching to 7 days after the last wardecc (for the target corp) to stop corp hopping. I would give new sturctures for the deccer to defend and the target to destroy.
This will Impact both sides of the wardecc. It will give new chances to the target and more fights for the deccers or mercs.

So you don't want to make the game more fun for all but wave the "bitter-vet-flag" and let the ship sink? We are all here for fun so there should be a way tot give it to everyone if everyone is willing to accept some limitations!

Since we are on the topic of wardecs.

In my travels into old patchnotes and dev blogs to prove Aaron wrong I found this:


This was from when they last changed the wardec mechanic.

My questions now are... is there any chance we can see the numbers on this, since their already are tracking it, should be decent enough with data by now.
And why was'nt this followed up?

Team Super Friends had some great ideas and imho had a good start. Too bad they didn't finish it.
To me it seems like it was deemed "good enough" and here we are...

consider not having such an aggressive schedule, and look for a healthier balance in regards to fixing and finalizing old content and introducing new.

You are wrong on both of it: I'm no idiot and the "Carebears" are clever. They know that it is a waste of money and gametime to chase Deccers that dock up whenever there is the slightest danger of loosing. so why waste money on it? The problem are the "clever" deccers that use every game machanic to avert any risk? It's just not worth it! You call it clever like Mittens but in the end it's the same tactic as the goons use: don't give a target and destroy the game for the enemy.

I want to force the deccers out when there is someone to fight. Make the destruction of the wardecc structure contractable= work for mercs.

Fun ingame is a fight no matter who wins or looses, at least for me (at the moment I'm at the receiving end) but the evasive tactics are something that makes fights no fun.

You think that everyone is an idiot and don't realise that most Players know what is rewarding and what is not. And the way wardeccs are fought now by the leet Players is no fun so it's better to hop corp then to fight.

You did not understand what i was saying.And yes you are right as far as afk mining goes, you cant do that, but my main point in safety between hs and ns is you have friends in null that wont shoot you since punisments are far more severe then they are in HS. Since punisments in HS for killing somene not labeled as enemy or valid target are minimal ofc you cant trust any neut and how are you going to find system with 0 neuts in it 23/7. It is same like in RL, safety is made by punishments, in HS punisment is as low as kill right, lost ship (3mil) and, hit to status that is apsurd to even talk about. In null its matter of hundreds milions to bilions if you get kicked out of corp with all your assets inside Null-sov stations....

But again to the "idiot high-sec miners". Sure there are some but if you take a look at the economic reports you start to wonder.
the Forge had build 32B ISK, Mined 1.5B ISK and Imports of 630B ISK wich sum up to around 660B ISK
Destroyed had been 2B ISK and tripple it for the loot you got 6B ISK. The "idiot high-sec miners" got 99+% through under your nose. You are outclassed by the hard hitting broker fees and the 100% efficient sales taxes. So the question is: Did you hit them hard or are these just "normal" losses like you might get toasted by some PvP group while ratting? Sure it is hard sometimes for some guys but overall you are not even making a dent. Tax evasion has greater impact then ganking/wardeccing. So are the most HS players really that dumb or just rich enough that even xB ISK losses don't hurt?

The Forge on its own is not hisec, you might want to think what you said through again.

Your retort is not valid because anyone with a brain will see that hisec mining is not just limited to the Forge. Of course you are not going to look up the numbers, I did not ask that, I just suggested that your comments which were underlined and highlighted were not valid and you would be better off re-stating it.

Sorry, bur wrong interpretation of the data:
1. production is the refining of ore to ships an modules
2. Most of the values going through the Forge are goods from other regions like ratting loot aka no HS miners
3. You also hit the outgoing traffic with effectively doubles the amount of cargo you miss and the buyers are also no HS miners
4. If you can afford a jump freighter full of Plex you are doing something right even if your method of transport is totally stupid.

let's go back to the datas:
The damage done to the whole Traffic is about 1%. Let's assume you do 500% of that to the "idiot HS-miners" thats 5%. Or you might say that you loose an Exhumer (at 200M) every 4B ISK mined ore........ That's around 140h of mining (and 4-5 visits to your therapist for your masochistic tendencys )

Also the example of the HS-Miner with a Jump-freighter full of Plex....... Why should someone living in HS use a Jump freighter? Or even transport PLEX if the trade hubs are around the corner? And these kills like the 40B kill in a shuttle full with Plex: Do you have any Idea how long you need to mine to get 40B ISK? I really don't want to calculate that. So most of your high loot kills are most likely not HS-Miners. All the ones that get buy are the leet NS- players and the big hits are all the HS-Miners? Most likely it's the other way around.

Reading all these threads it looks like we need a complete overhaul of the surveillance system.

Surveillance system in my eyes is local, chat channels, overview, d scan.

For too long has surveillance been about using alts to monitor gates and local in adjacent systems.

Couple a new surveillance system with the rightly positioned war dec mechanic and that will be a start.

I believe the goal here should be to backpedal on the "bullsht mechanics" - however smart they may seem.

For example, playing station games may sound like a real smart move for l33t players with a firm grasp on the rules of the game, but you wind up with people too afraid to even consider fighting at stations because (a) the target will get away, (b) you're aggressed so the real question is: what will UNDOCK? Ergo, whenever someone aggresses at a station, it's usually a bad omen.

As long as wardec'ing entities just sit outside a station, they're not going to get fights is what I'm getting at-- and while this may be fine for them, it's also one of the reasons "casuals" won't even try to fight.

Another example of a bullsht mechanic, is dropping corp and creating a new one or staying NPC for a week. While it's technically valid and correct, it's also bad: you don't wardec someone without assets because you know your money's wasted.

I feel that, somewhere along the way, both sides have become exceedingly good at either completely crushing the opposition, or dodging out. "adapt or die" works bothways you see.

Perhaps it's not so much the mechanics that need changing, but rather the way wardec corps operate. If current methods aren't leading to satisfactory results, then perhaps a small corp flying with a whole lot less faction mods and friends may do the trick? Looking "engagable" is important for getting fights. Price isn't too prohibitive either.

I'm sure there's a reason why highsec corps operate the way they do, yet several years down the line one would think you could assess what this mode of operation has wrought?

Found this on another well known forum I visit and thought it was appropriate for this thread.

I thought it relevant because it speaks to me about trying to find common ground to make everyone who signs into the game enjoy it. rather than the current state of affairs with war decs where some people have the perception the game is somehow special and it should be nasty and horrible.... deep down once all the "Eve is this", "I buy plex because ISK is so many $$ per hour" crap - its a game.

A round of wardecs from 98% efficiency Merc groups will have that effect.

In this game, you either stay small (and off the radar) or join a large group with SRP. Growing out of a small corp is usually a death sentence.

Reading too much into my post.
It is what it is. Adapt or die.

We have adapted.

Point it at what?

(Read that in the voice of Caboose from RvB for comedic effect)

I've been watching for some time a particular group who call themselves the #1 merc alliance. What I am seeing is quite honestly something the war dec mechanic shouldn't be about.

Alt logi, majority of fleet signed out and a bait ship with neut scouts. When there is a catch it's like flies around dog pooh, everyone signs in warps to the where the action. Anyone would think they just won a really good fight with how they then abuse you in private convo's, anyone will die to this type of game play.

So the question is again, from a war dec mechanic is this really the type of game style we want in the game?